The 5 Types of Therapeutic Change (with Dr. Antonio Pascual-Leone)
- Jordanthecounselor
- 7 hours ago
- 2 min read
Dr. Antonio Pascual-Leone is an expert on change.
He's spent over a 10 years studying how change happens across different therapy models.
Turns out there are only 5 types of changes.
Down regulation
Emotional awareness
Expressive rousal (Deeping emotion to make new meaning)
Changing emotion and
Narrative reflection (Cognitive reframing).
Therapists often get stuck when clients need one type of change (i.e. emotional awareness) but a therapist is using a model which specializes in another type of change (ie cognitive reframing).
In this interview we discuss the 5 types of change, talk about when to use them, and more importantly when NOT to use them.
Watch the Interview
Listen here:
Jordan Harris, Ph.D., LMFT-S, LPC-S, received his Doctor of Philosophy in Marriage and Family Therapy from the University of Louisiana Monroe. He is a licensed professional counselor and a licensed marriage and family therapist in the state of Arkansas, USA. In his clinical work, he enjoys working with couples. He also runs a blog on deliberate practice for therapists and counselors at Jordanthecounselor.com You can find him on linkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-harris-lpc-s-lmft-s-418412301/
Antonio Pascual-Leone is a clinician psychologist and full professor in Psychology at University of Windsor, Canada, as well as an honorary professor of Psychiatry at the University of Lausanne, Switzerland. Regarded as a world expert on emotion change, he has published seminal contributions to psychotherapy theory and research. His books include the recently released "Principles of Emotion" (APA, 2026), which has been praised as a contemporary classic, as well as "Emotion Focused Therapy for Complex Trauma" (APA, 2nd ed. 2023). His work is recognized by career awards from the Society for Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration (2009) and Society for Psychotherapy Research (2014), as well as publication awards from American Psychological Association (2010) and the Society for the Research and Treatment of Personality Disorder (2016). A certified trainer in Emotion-focused Therapy, he has delivered over 50 clinical workshops in over a dozen countries. His TEDx talk on resolving relational trauma has been viewed over 6.4 million times. He has received awards for teaching and mentorship (2016; 2018; 2024), for his approach to psychotherapy training. Dr. Pascual-Leone maintains a private practice, providing therapy to individuals and couples.
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